The International Canoe

The forum for the International Canoe
It is currently Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:58 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:45 pm
Posts: 766
Location: United Kingdom
Has anyone any good designs for halyard locks that will work well with a thin carbon mast with an internal halyard? I conducted a little experiment today... My mast is a much lighter section than most, and although it is appreciably reinforced below the hounds I've still been suffering with the leech opening up too early no matter how much kicker I use. I've been mulling over beefing it up some more, but this morning I simply lashed the sail to the top of the mast to see what happened. I have to admit I am gobsmacked by how much difference it made: I estimate I could get my 15 stone of lard out another 8 inches out along the plank. So I suppose I am going to have to install a halyard lock of some description...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:24 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Plymouth, Devon, UK
Having had problems with chaffing on my main halyard I too would be interested on a halyard lock.
The last snapping of the halyard happened in a local regatta just after the worlds and the amount of rope left was not long enough to rig the 2-1 purchase that I had been using. Now no matter how tight I pull the halyard it stretches so that the head of the sail drops up to three inches when the mast is bent. This never happened to me before with a 2-1 halyard.

_________________
________________________
Chris Hampe
GBR 340 Monkey's Uncle


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Pittwater, Sydney Australia
A friend got a kiwi carbon mast for their Cherub and for a halyard lock it was just a #0 brass headsail hank epoxied into the top of the mast with a light trip line around the hank shaft. If you don't mind capsizing the boat to pull the sail up then it works well and pretty simple too. A shackle through the headboard just clipped into the hank...

_________________
Jethrow
AUS 33
Magic Carpet Ride
http://jethrowsicpage.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:45 pm
Posts: 766
Location: United Kingdom
Yeah, I've come across that idea from other Kiwi sources... I spent twenty five years rolling the boat over to rig my Cherubs: its not new territory for me, but its a lot more pain with a singlehander. However some sort of loop/trip alongside the masthead sheave might make sense - rig the boat normally but then roll her in the water to clip the head into the trip, then just release it from bottom when you come to derig. Have to make a custom mast head fitting, but scarcely rocket science...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: USA
I've got one that I am happy with. I can't seem to post a picture here so I will post a couple on the DC thread on Sailing Anarchy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Pittwater, Sydney Australia
Hi Chris & Jim

Have a look at the Riley marine catalogue linked here.

http://www.rileyfittings.com/Page-Home.htm

If you look in the products under halyard locks I think you'll see Chris's lock. Don't know if there distributed elsewhere but I think Holt did some Riley stuff.

_________________
Jethrow
AUS 33
Magic Carpet Ride
http://jethrowsicpage.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: USA
The only locks I see in the Riley catalogue are not designed for internal halyards.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Pittwater, Sydney Australia
Yeah that's right Chris, external locks. I thought the lock in your SA photo looked like the RM 91 fitting

_________________
Jethrow
AUS 33
Magic Carpet Ride
http://jethrowsicpage.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:45 pm
Posts: 766
Location: United Kingdom
I'm afraid I can't figure out your lock Chris: does it disappear into the mast a little further down?
I'm currently mulling over fabricating a head fitting that has a carbon hook built in alongside a sheave so that it locks automatically on hoist and has a trip line to release. I just have this bad feeling that it would be a complete son of a bitch if the boat isn't smack head to wind though. I guess that's the biggest advantage of having your lock on the downward side of the sheave at the top: no alignment problems...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:45 pm
Posts: 110
Location: USA
I'll post a couple of more pictures over on DA. Really poor quality pictures but at least they show the little gizmo that flips down to release the halyard.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:32 pm
Posts: 544
Location: United Kingdom
chrishampe wrote:
Having had problems with chaffing on my main halyard I too would be interested on a halyard lock.
The last snapping of the halyard happened in a local regatta just after the worlds and the amount of rope left was not long enough to rig the 2-1 purchase that I had been using. Now no matter how tight I pull the halyard it stretches so that the head of the sail drops up to three inches when the mast is bent. This never happened to me before with a 2-1 halyard.


I have used D12 2.5mm halyard and this doesn't stretch much at all so this is one simple mod which can be made. I also use a loop in the halyard at the base to go onto a toothed rack to make sure nothing slips with a ball and loop at the top.

_________________
Steve Clarke (UK)
GBR338 "Money4Nuffin


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:45 pm
Posts: 766
Location: United Kingdom
Well, I've built my mk 1 halyard lock, and so far it seems to be working in beach tests and in a Force 1. The test of course will be when its windy. I decided against doing something clever like Chris, instead I've made a simple arrangement that uses a separate trip line.

Image

The above is the arrangement at the mast head. The black part is the main new masthead fitting, which is lots of layers of carbon with a few of kevlar to try and minimise wear. There's a very wide shackle, round end upwards, shackles to the sail, and the halyard is spliced to it.The coloured part is the trip lever, grey is its normal position, yellow is the trip position.
Hoist.
When you pull the sail up the halyard tends to align between the two sides of the hook, then the shackle rides up over the hook arrangement and you feel a clunk as it clicks into the keyway. A quick pull down on the luff fully engages it. If the rope isn't between the two sides of the hook then it will sort itself out as the shackle rides over the hook. So far I've failed to persuade it not to line up: if it doesn't engage on the first attempt the act of pulling the shackle over the hook seems to line it up and so far it has always engaged on the 2nd attempt. Obviously time will tell on how reliable its going to be, but if all else fails it should be easy enough to engage it manually with a simple roll over in the water.
Drop.
Release the downhaul, kicker, and halyard. There's a release line, which is just 1.5mm line. This goes from the end of the lever down the inside of the mast and through a little hole in the side of the mast. Pull it and the lever pushes the shackle out of the hook. Then just pull down the luff. There is nothing clever about the lever, no lock or anything, and it just resets when the shackle engages on the next hoist.


There's quite a lot to do in relative positioning of the components to make it work right: A good bug with the first implementation was for the halyard to drop down the mast track rather than stay outside ready to hold up the mast when I drop the jib.

If it works well with experience (big if) I might see if I can interest one of the hardware suppliers...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Pittwater, Sydney Australia
That's a pretty smart and simple solution to the problem. I like it!

Edit:- Just had a thought. How does it handle twisting when the sail is let out downwind?

_________________
Jethrow
AUS 33
Magic Carpet Ride
http://jethrowsicpage.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Halyard Locks?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:45 pm
Posts: 766
Location: United Kingdom
MCR wrote:
Edit:- Just had a thought. How does it handle twisting when the sail is let out downwind?

I decided that probably the head board is pretty much locked in anyway. The headboard can theoretically swing on the shackle pin through about 90 degrees I guess... Its a good point though: I shall have to look carefully at the top of the sail. The leech didn't look in any way odd in my little test sail today, but I was concerned with twist in general having reset up the kicker... Have to sail it without the lock as well to see if there's any difference. I've already been mulling over what a custom fitting to replace the shackle might look like: perhaps it ought to have a swivel...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group