DC Ballot - Voting is now on

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Christian AUS
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DC Ballot - Voting is now on

Post by Christian AUS » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:15 pm

The ICF Sailing Committee has released the ballot information, if you are an ICAA (or New Zealand) IC sailor and did not receive a copy in your email please PM me.
Alternatively refer to the information on the ICAA website: http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au

Remember you need to be an ICAA member to vote!

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Christian AUS
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Post by Christian AUS » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:35 am

Close of Day 1 and 5 Australian votes in already, with all in support of DC rules becoming the IC rules. Not much support for GPS's so far, but it's early days in the ballot Down Under.

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Post by Christian AUS » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:11 pm

DC Ballot

Arguably the most important ballot since the class chose the Nethercott Hull in the 1970's. Have your say!

http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting. ... Page=34766

9 Australian votes and 1 NZ vote so far – which is fantastic but we can do better. I want every IC member and IC owner (a number of you own IC’s but aren’t ICAA members) in Australia captured in this ballot – even if you simply choose to abstain from the vote. I would like to capture the votes from any NZ sailors who own or are looking to build IC’s so we can highlight this interest to the World Committee.

And yes, if I haven’t got your response as we near the 20th Feb I will start ringing you up ;o)

Cheers
Christian
ICAA President

FYI
Australia: So far 100% support for the DC rules becoming the class rules for IC’s, 55% support for Electronic devices

New Zealand: So far 100% support for the DC rules becoming the class rules for IC’s, but no support for Electronic devices

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Post by Christian AUS » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:26 pm

Persistent on this DC Ballot thing aren’t I! Make me stop by getting your votes (and chasing down others in your club/state) in ASAP.

I really want your vote, I want to know what you as IC Members and IC owners want from your class so that we can plan for the future and class growth.

So far I have 9 Australian Votes and 3 New Zealand Votes in with 100% support for the DC rules, if you haven’t voted then what do YOU want from YOUR class?

Ballot information here: http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting. ... Page=34766

Having a chat to Kyle (AUS13) yesterday, he is interested in building a ‘hollow log/string theory’ boat (see Sailing Anarchy http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index. ... opic=65915) that Phil S and Steve C are working on. Both Phil S and Geoff H are working on their DC’s to find some more grunt (I’m looking for a softer mast to try and make the grunt more useable for my 65kg), there are also rumours of 1 or more DC’s coming onto the scene in Albury/Wodonga but we’ll wait for pics before we confirm that. 2 DC’s are also in build in New Zealand – let’s hope those guys get some pics online soon – 2009 Interdominions perhaps?

For the Aussies the Yachting Australia awards are upon us, have a read and let me know if you think someone should be nominated and what category (read the supporting information). http://www.ayf.com.au/?Page=34381



Please send your completed ballot forms to cknh@bigpond.net.au or internationalcanoe@hotmail.com as soon as possible, along with your membership forms ***In fact if you are not currently a member and you fill in the 2007/08 Membership forms and ballot and return them + payment to me by the 20th Feb 2008 I will give you complementary ICAA membership to the 2008/09 season*** go to http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/ for membership and ballot forms.

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Post by H Virtue » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:52 pm

I can confirm there is at least 1 going to be built in Wodonga very soon with another sounding very possible, like you I will believe the second when I see the pic's or I get a deposit to build it.

I cant wait to sail my new IC, will she be as fast as String Theory, Josie the "Log" etc? I hope so, she has pretty good pedigree from where I started my design's from so there is a good chance she will be competitive.

H.

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Post by Christian AUS » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:19 am

13 Aussie responses, 3 NZ responses so far: 100% in favour of DC's

77% Aussies in favour of GPS

33% NZ in favour of GPS

More votes still to come....

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Post by Christian AUS » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:04 am

All bar one of the 07/08 financial members of the ICAA have voted with 94% in support of the DC rules becoming the rules for the IC.
70% of 07/08 ICAA financial members are in support of permitting electronic equipment - with 17% choosing to abstain.

Some non-financial 07/08 members who are IC owners, and financial members have expressed concerns about what this means to their racing and divisions of fleets and potentially more splitting of the IC fleet. In Australia the acceptance of the DC rules will impact current Nethercott sailors as there is little doubt that the lighter development boats are faster - and that if accepted chances are that to win the 2008 and future Australian Championships you will need a boat designed to the new rules. However Nethercott's are still the 'critical mass' fleet in Australia and will continue to be fully supported for as long as they compete.

There has been little to no expressed concern about any perceived de-valueing of current boats - I think this is due to some of the newest boat owners in the Australian fleet already making the switch to the new boats.

There has been discussion of future Nethercott development (larger sails, seats......). Which is a concept which may need addressing, possibly by an Nethercott sub-committee of the IC should the ballot be successful internationally, in the future. though we did see at the pre-worlds that a bigger rigged/winged/spinnakered and well set up Nethercott Hull struggled to beat the DC's (and IC's occasionally) around the course. Longevity of the Nethercott would seem to be keeping it as it is, and racing in it's own division.

I'll be submitting the Australian responses to Alan Powell on the 20th, so still 2 more days for Aussies to vote/become members and have their votes counted.

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Post by Dunno » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:21 am

Christian AUS wrote:There has been little to no expressed concern about any perceived de-valueing of current boats
As a poor uni student looking to get an ic, that is actually one of my concerns that my dad raised to me. Having been loosely watching the market place for close to 6 months, how many boats have actually sold, two as far as I know...wont be a very good investment for me at this point in my life....

Especially considering that I paid 1200 for my impulse and I was able to mix it right with the top of the fleet.

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Post by Christian AUS » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:52 am

Dunno wrote:
Christian AUS wrote:There has been little to no expressed concern about any perceived de-valueing of current boats
As a poor uni student looking to get an ic, that is actually one of my concerns that my dad raised to me. Having been loosely watching the market place for close to 6 months, how many boats have actually sold, two as far as I know...wont be a very good investment for me at this point in my life....

Especially considering that I paid 1200 for my impulse and I was able to mix it right with the top of the fleet.
AUS10, AUS5, AUS6, AUS018 have all been sold recently (withing last 12 months) and all are IC's. A Nethercott IC represents a lot of boat for you buck, ask Tim Wilson who is a builder of both Impulses and IC's.
1 is a high performance dinghy which can chew up 505's upwind and sails off a yardstick of 93.5, has the current World and Junior Champions in the fleet, and has members that actively sail internationally. The other is an impulse (which has it's own positives and negatives).
If you are on tight budget then possibly the IC isn't for you, these are high performance racing machines and they do require an investment (both time on water and financial) to get the most out of them.
Think of all IC's (AC, DC, IC) like well tuned sports cars, they are very fast and very rewarding, they will invoke all emotions, older models need a lot of love. You may pay a bit more money than you would for say another model, but when you're ready to upgrade/move on you just have to wait for the right buyer to come along (High perfomance sports car buyers don't walk into the showroom everyday, Hyundai buyers do).

Fab boats, social crowd, sailors already planning to go to Germany in 2011, plus Life is to short to sail slow and IC's are awesome (the new ones are even better). What do YOU want to do?

H Virtue
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Post by H Virtue » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:20 am

Dunno wrote:
As a poor uni student looking to get an ic, that is actually one of my concerns that my dad raised to me. Having been loosely watching the market place for close to 6 months, how many boats have actually sold, two as far as I know...wont be a very good investment for me at this point in my life....

Especially considering that I paid 1200 for my impulse and I was able to mix it right with the top of the fleet.
Way back when I first got into sailing IC"s c1991 I was a poor student studying I was looking around for a boat to upgrade to from a Moth. A small fleet of IC came to my club for a regattta I had a test sailing in almost no wind something about the IC grabbed my attention I had a boat built now I build my own. ( I can build any form of IC for you if you like IC,AC,DC identical to the current World Champ even). I dont think I have ever had a concern about loosing money on an IC. The hulls last a liffe time they are made like brick dunnies. When you loose only a few grand after 10 years sailing the same boat that represeent pretty good value to me. What value can you put on the time spent sailing the best dinghy in the World.

The IC while not the cheapest boat on the market I believe offer possibly the best value for money. They can come fully fitted out or ready to fit extra go fast gear on. Sailing at the end of the plank will offer rewards few other boats can. If its big fleet racing your after Canoe's are not it, if you want to enjoy every second on the water the Canoe is.

Of all the classes I have sailed the canoes I have sold have been the only boats I haven't lost bucket loads of money on and considering the ones I sold were at least 4 years old (upto 17year) when I sold them de-vauliing isn't an issue.

Nethercotts I believe will be needed for some time they are the perfect boat to learn on before going full on into a DC they will most likely turn over hands pretty quickly as new people come into the class and then build new boats so I cant see you losing much on a Nethercott. We have always had s shortage of entry level boats.

A good second hand Nethercott can be bought for approx $3k it will need some TLC maybe a new suit of sails and mast, however the new gear could be tarnsfered onto a new hull so you can then sell a complete entry level Nethercott on for little loss if any and keep all your good bits for a DC which will minimse the change over once you have come to grips with sailing an IC.

Were are you? sounds like you need to have a sail of an IC.

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Post by jimc » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:51 am

Dunno wrote:wont be a very good investment for me at this point in my life....
A boat is a hobby and can be defines as a hole in the water into which you pour money.
An investment is a financial transaction which is intended to make money.

Its important to distinguish the two!

More seriouly the whole business of talking about "investing" in boats drives people into some very crazy thinking... Be it a new sail for a Laser or an Americas Cup yacht its best to think of money spent on your boat as being one with dollars in the pokey: gone for ever. So don't spend more than you can afford and enjoy the thrill... That way when you come to sell the boat anything you get is a pleasant bonus and the whole business of changing boats is far less fraught...

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Post by frank! » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:20 pm

This is the letter i sent with my vote. It took a lot of soul searching because i did not want to be negative but, for the record, reflect some issues. I'm sure the IC will go DC - and i really hope that the enthusiasm and class bonding will continue. The worlds was a wonderful experience!
The internet will be invaluable for the class.
Unfortunately i think i've left it too late to advance to the DC but i haven't finished with my IC yet - i'm just waiting for my body to repair after the battering it received in the Worlds campaign.

I'm sure a tidy boat will always sell - in its own good time - meanwhile, having an IC in your arsenal is no embarassment!

{ Yes I have voted ‘No’ to the DC rules!

No, it was not easy – I have agonised over this particularly as I believe that the rule should never have restricted the canoe to the Nethercott in the first place.

I have voted no for a number of reasons – in no particular order:-

· To reflect the fact that there are some reservations by some people. eg. Though the straw poll at the 2008 Worlds skippers’ meeting was overwhelmingly in favour, it was not unanimous. I was aware that others near me dissented.
· I am a new owner, but for twenty years I have had a dream to sail the IC. It seems to me that the stability of type has allowed the Aussie fleet to grow. It certainly gave me plenty of choices and helped me to choose a boat that I could afford and was suitable for my purposes.
· The canoe is no longer a standout for the fastest singlehander which is a shame in a way because that surely has always been its major attraction. Unfortunately I cannot see that the class can reclaim that title. The proposed DC rules are too restrictive to allow that. Compared to the Moth rules, the Canoe’s are quite conservative so the canoe couldn’t find a niche as a ‘big Moth’ for heavier sailors.
· Rather than fiddling with the hull restrictions (particularly as they have made the canoe even crankier to sail (oops that’ll bring a storm on my head!)), I can’t help thinking that it would be more appropriate to open up the rig. The rig is a fraction of the hull cost and is recycled several times in a hull’s life anyway. Looking at it in general terms – if the current rig is fully powered up in 14kts for most skippers, then in 7kts of breeze to generate the same power they would need much as forty square meters of sail! (power being proportional to the square of the wind speed). So if we race in a wind range of 5 to 20kts that is a 16 : 1 ratio of power. There must be possibilities there!}
its a young world after all - well, maybe ... the two oldies scored 1st & 2nd (and 1st!) .........

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Nethercott Div 2 ?

Post by Barry Watkin » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:20 pm

Frank As another recent IC sailor I understand your concern, having spent last summer trying to stay with my canoe I think I see your point that the Nethercotts days are numbered. Once I got 'slightly' to grips with the boat & arrived at the top mark with the RS700's I was slightly peaved to watch them hoist there kites & 'bugger off!' I might also say that Andy Patterson with his DC also sails in our club and usually gets there in front or at least with leaders also suffers if the downwind leg is light & against the tide. Although no where near as much as the heavy Nerthercott.
So my initial answer was to build a DC, having acquired the Morrison plug I looked at finishing it off but despite a lot of routeing & pruning there was no way I was going to get near the weight, so alas rather than produce a 65kg DC I took a saw to it! That weekend I went to an open where a 'depleted' fleet of 16 AC's were racing, fleet racing is the real answer to all of this and the possible answer to tidal club racing problems those of us with 'heavy' IC's face. So this winter my canoe has sprouted a bowsprit
loads more string & 20mtrs of coloured rag.
So and heres the crunch if you & others are concerned over the posible effects of DC mania get together and go AC, apart from another paragraph in your life insurance what have you got to lose!!!!
Regards Barry.
BMW

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Post by jimc » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:14 pm

frank! wrote:I can’t help thinking that it would be more appropriate to open up the rig.
The trouble with putting on big rags is that it needs an astonishing amount of rag to go much faster, and then you're either stumping down or not sailing at all when its windy. And then big rags an big sticks cost more than small ones - all the rest of it.

But I'm biased, because I moved to ICs (to be precise DCs as I think I can call my Nethercott a DC as I firmly believe it tips the scales well under 83kg now) precisely because my previous class decided to put on 50% bigger rags, and for me spoilt the boat completely. I designed and owned a 12.5m^2 rag singlehander a few years ago, and one of the reasons I think the IC is nicer it because it goes just as fast with just 10...

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Post by SteveC » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:16 pm

Well said Barry. As a member of the growing AC UK fleet and also building a new boat (AC) I think many of us think that the AC is a great platform for competive and exciting racing with a good level of boat handling skill required but manageable. The hull may not be as efficient as the new DC's but let's not carried away here, it's still bloody good and stable enough for a kite. Having had an RS700, I can say the AC is just as exciting and more satisfying to sail.

Surely the recycling of IC to AC is a no brainer and perhaps further rig development is worth looking at as a route for the AC, after all if you want a faster car you usually get one with a bigger engine!

If the DC boys can't hack a kite, well that's up to them so I will vote for their changes.

So come on you Aussie boys, stick a kite on your IC, we thought you lot were tough!

Steve (English) Clarke AC GBR300

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