The International Canoe

Hi all
Not sure what the conclusion was on the handicap for the new rules boats, I assume its between 870 and 905, I am doing some handicap racing at my club and they need a starting point.
Thanks

I don't know that we ever came to a firm conclusion, but from the times they took in Aus 880 seemed to be a good starting point. Were finish times taken at this year's Champs to give us some more recent data?

I Don't think the new rules boats are as close to the Ac's (870) then previously suggested. I would think somewhere in the 890 - 895 range would be more accurate.

Memory says that the New Rules PN was recommended to be halfway between IC @ 905 and AC @ 873 (as was), i.e. 899. We need more boats to be sailing more races to establish a firmer number that the RYA could publish.


Peter

899 is only 6 PY numbers shy of 905! Half way between 870 and 905 is about 890, in the range Chris suggests and I think Peter means, apart from a typing error! A PY of 890 implies that a new rules IC should complete an hours long race 54 seconds faster than an IC one design. I wonder if that was the sort of average gap between say, John Ellis and the two new rules boats at the Nationals? They were certainly more than that ahead of me in most races, but with so few boats it is hard to keep the 'crew skill factor' constant!

If you go for 890 and your club makes on line returns of race results as the year goes on, the RYA will give frequent feedback to the club as to what PY you should be sailing off either against Primary Number boats sailing at your club or against the most frequently sailed boats in your club handicap fleet. However, this number may well be very different from the published PY for the class. Draycote where I sail was one of the first clubs to make returns in this way and the RYA comes back and tells us that ICs at the club (almost entirely my results) should be on a PY of about 926 on our inland waters. The trouble is that the most common 'comparator' boat in the Draycote fast handicap fleet is the RS300 (PY1000) which I never manage to beat by about 5 minutes and hour till the wind is about a force 4. In light winds the best RS300s are up with me on the water. It will need a lot of returns before the RYA will be able to generate a reliable number for the new rules boats and if just two of you do badly against better boats than ICs in light winds (like the RS300 or Phantoms) at your club, the PY for the new rules boats could turn out to be higher than 905!

Have fun off 890. Colin

Funnily enough that's what we use at my club...

Do we have a class approved number for the new boats yet? I sailed my first two races in monkey yesterday and cleaned up. In the second race I still would have won on a handicap of of 769. I'm going with the crew skill factor excuse for the time being

Hmm, I wonder what I should get the club to report 257 as in this year's returns. The old girl hardly qualifies as being one design, but on the other hand would rather unsportingly drag down development boat numbers, being nowhere near the new boats...

I expect others noted that the RYA has recently published the list of PY Numbers for 2011. The IC (One Design) stays at 905 and the AC is not changed at 870. Interestingly, the Musto Skiff moves to 860, -15 from last year making it almost the same as the RS 700 on 858. Foiling Moths move to 650 -40 since last year. There is still no published number for a new rules IC.

If I were Jim I would offer his club 905 as a trial number taking into account modifications which are a plus factor but age of the boat which is a negative factor.
In The case of Monkey it seems the class recommended Trial Number is 890, so why not go with this?

Colin