The International Canoe

At 13.5 Stone, I am restricted to club racing a Phantom. I am now looking to change class to allow me to go racing in more than 12knots!

To help work out the facts on buying an IC or AC, please could someone help me with the following?

1. What is a suitable weight / fitness level for sailing an AC?

2. What is a suitable budget for an entry level AC?

3. Is it best to have a season in an IC, and work onwards to an AC?

4. I am not too keen on buying one without at least sailing one first. Is anyone willing to let me have a go? (I live in North Hertfordshire, so not too far from Grafham)

5. To get the best out of the boat, does it need to be sailed on large open water, Grafham, Datchet etc..?

6. What is the 2nd hand market like? Just in case I cant get on with it, I want to ensure that I will not have to wait 6months + to sell it..


Thanks
Andy

Andy

I weigh just over 13 Stone, and I'm just over 6ft tall. I reckon you'll be fine.

I started last year with an IC and upgraded this year. However, I would say that if you want an AC, just get an AC. You can always sail it without using the kite to start with, and they are easier to sell should you not get on with it.

A starter AC is about £4-5k (but it'll be a good boat for that, not an old shed). The guys in this class tend to look after their boats and keep them in good order. There's one available in the for sale section which is probably a good starter AC. They're all carbon, so they don't go soft.

Once you've got certain techniques sorted, they're not that hard to sail, and you don't hurt your back and legs hiking all the time.

A lot of the boats sell without even hitting the open market, and most sell very quickly.

My boat is at Oxford, and you're very welcome to come over and have a go in it if you like. It'll also give you an idea of what you can get for that kind of money. Give us a shout if you want to come over for a play.

Bob

I sail at Island Barn in Surrey which is 122 acres, but a pretty regular oval, amnd is up in the air like Datchet so its all usable. Its OK for an IC but I wouldn't want to sail anywhere much smaller. Its too small for a Cherub, offwind - too many hoists and drops, you spend as much time hoisting and dropping as you do sailing. The AC isn't as fast as the Cherub offwind but goes much deeper, so the smart money is that is below the optimum size for an AC too.

it must be said: the great thing about the sliding seat is that it is so much more forgiving than trapeezing. The seat kisses the water initially allowing you to clamber back onboard, apposed to a trapeeze boat which makes you swing away from the boat as it heels to windward. Because of this forgivingness, I sail my AC (with the kite) on the River Avon at Tewkesbury Cruising and Sailing Club in the summer (35m wide) and at Bowmoor Sailing Club in the winter (approx 50 acres). Both sharpen your boat handling very quickly - anyone can go fast, but turning the corners is the challenging bit!

Go for an AC, wherever you sail you'll love it!!

Hi
I sail a IC and a Phantom. I would agree, the phantom requires some weight for the best results, I am also at 13.5 stone at present, I have sailed it at 12.5 stone and the more weight you put on the faster you go, even it seems down wind and that applies up to about 15-16 stone which seems about the best. The canoe both IC and AC are a lot more challenging and rewarding boats, either would be good fun, personally I favour the IC, slightly less rope and an option to design and build to your own ideas, there is also a option of international competition. The AC fleet is more established in this country and if that is what you want to work up to then it would be best to go for that from the beginning. From what I have seen all the AC boats are in good order, the fleet keeps there boats well! Fitness levels do not need to be high, less fit than a Phantom, but a bit more nimble on your feet. You may find that sailing on a large peice of water for the first few times better, it takes a little while to get used to tacking a canoe, the smallest peice of water I have regularly sailed on is Lee and Lowton which is fairly small but had no problems there, I did try and sail it up the creek at Blakeney once but that was too small (about 30ft wide) to tack up, esp with all the moored boats. The canoe takes weight surprisingly well, I would guess the weight range is from 10.5 stone to 15 stone, but that is a guess, in any case 13.5 stone is good.
Hope that helps
Alistair

Just to add to the points above, the IC/AC is equally competative with helms from 10-16 stone if sailed properly & a good season in one should have you going around the course fairly quickly but as with all boats, will need time on the water to perfect its potential. There are many more AC's sailing in the UK so it would be a better option to get an AC so you have both options of ither sailing it as an AC with the kite or remove the kite & sail it as an IC. There is a very nice AC currently on this web site 'GBR276' that seems to have it all & at a very reasonable price, that would be my recomendation. Happy Planking, Rob.

All,

Thanks for your advice to date.

I am now very interested in an AC and plan to get a trial sail during the next 2 months with a view to buying one in time for the Nationals and the Sheppey race.

I have seen the details for AC's 276 & 279 and will look into these futher over the weekend. If anyone else has one for sale, I would be interested in hearing from you.

Please note that buying an AC does involve selling my Phantom first.

Thanks
Andy

anlathome@aol.com

On Saturday I had my first AC sailing experience. Following a short briefing using the plank & rig controls I hit the water. The Canoes fast reaching speed made Farmoor feel a lot smaller than I recalled from previous visits in other classes. By the end of the session, I had plucked up the courage to use the kite, blasting along in 10-12 knots of wind with all three sails up, whilst sitting on the end of plank was just wonderful.

Thanks again Bob for all the advice and letting a complete canoe novice sail your boat. If you are anything to go by, I cannot wait to meet the rest of the class.

Now to find an AC!

Andy

No worries, it was a pleasure.

Looking forward to seeing you at the next Open